Eretz Israel is our unforgettable historic homeland...The Jews who will it shall achieve their State...And whatever we attempt there for our own benefit will redound mightily and beneficially to the good of all mankind. (Theodor Herzl, DerJudenstaat, 1896)

We offer peace and amity to all the neighbouring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all. The State of Israel is ready to contribute its full share to the peaceful progress and development of the Middle East.
(From Proclamation of the State of Israel, 5 Iyar 5708; 14 May 1948)

With a liberal democratic political system operating under the rule of law, a flourishing market economy producing technological innovation to the benefit of the wider world, and a population as educated and cultured as anywhere in Europe or North America, Israel is a normal Western country with a right to be treated as such in the community of nations.... For the global jihad, Israel may be the first objective. But it will not be the last. (Friends of Israel Initiative)

Friday, 10 December 2010

The Sad Old State of Cloud Cuckoo Land – British Jews, the Right, and Islamophobia

The Reform Club is a famous gentlemen’s club in the heart of London’s Clubland. Founded in 1836 by Whigs and Liberals, the kind of people responsible for the Great Reform Act of 1832 that swept away "rotten boroughs" and enfranchised the (male) urban middle class, it looks very much as it did in this illustration of 1840, except that some of the women there nowadays are members in their own right rather than members’ guests. The fictional Phileas Fogg’s celebrated journey in Jules Verne’s Around the World in Eighty Days started from the Reform Club, and the club’s sumptuous interior has served as the backdrop for a number of movies – I recognise it in early scenes in The Bounty, starring Anthony Hopkins as Captain Bligh and Mel Gibson as Fletcher Christian – and I know it has featured in others since then.

It was at the Reform Club that I once had tea with a Jewish former MP, Harold Soref (pictured, 1916-93) as his guest, seated in a corner of a library where ladies were permitted. Soref was, indeed, a most unlikely member of a club stocked with marble busts and oil paintings of the great and good of the Liberal Party – Cobden, Bright, Daniel O’Connell, Gladstone, and the rest – for he was known as the most rightwing Tory MP in the House, and there are rumours (I’ve never got to the bottom of them) that as a youngster he’d been a member of Oswald Mosley’s British Union of Fascists. After two unsuccessful attempts to enter Parliament in the 1950s, he became Conservative MP for Ormskirk in 1970, only to lose his seat in 1974 owing to boundary changes that assured Labour of victory.

A proudly loyal Jew, he was on the Council of the Anglo-Jewish Association and from 1947-51 he’d edited its fiercely anti-Zionist periodical, The Jewish Monthly. He also contributed articles on Anglo- and Commonwealth Jewish history to a number of journals. In the British Museum (now the British Library) I’d read some of his old anti-Zionist editorials, which were based, among other considerations, on the fear, common among right-wingers at the time he wrote them, that Israel would be a puppet of the Soviet Union, abetting that country's rivalry to British interests in the Middle East. However, in 1973, at the time of the Yom Kippur War, when the Heath government despicably refused to supply spare parts for British-made Israeli tanks, Soref had joined most other Jewish Conservative MPs as well as a few non-Jewish ones in crossing the floor to vote with the Opposition over the issue.

I was interested to learn, during our conversation at the Reform Club, that he’d visited Israel not long after Independence was declared, along with another Jewish future Conservative MP (whose subsequent marriage to a Christian provoked a pointed article from Soref – who never married at all – on intermarriage, headed, if I recall correctly, "Bad Jews and Mad Jews"). And it was clear that his anti-Zionism had been laid to rest by events. Perceiving Israel’s interests to have dovetailed with Britain’s, he was agreeably pro-Israel, and when I asked him what he thought of the wisdom of this or that Israeli policy he refused to be drawn, declaring emphatically: "It’s all very well for me, sitting in the comfort of this club, to presume to tell the Israeli government what to do!" (Quite so. Got that, Mick Davis?)

Soref headed a firm of Africa merchants founded by his Romanian-born father and uncle; he greatly feared the spread of communism in Africa and was an unswerving apologist for white rule there. This made him anathema in most Jewish circles – and in leftwing ones generally. In 1974 he had to scale a six-foot wall to escape a mob of howling students yelling “Death to Soref!” when he arrived to speak as scheduled at the Oxford Union. And he was apparently the intended target of IRA gunmen who, lying in wait outside his London home, killed a man who looked similar to him.

Following increasingly fraught relations with other members, Soref at length resigned from the Board of Deputies of British Jews in protest at its pursuit of alliances with other minority groups – he vehemently argued that Anglo-Jewry’s place was with what he called "the indigenous people" of Britain, whom he felt were betrayed by mass immigration and given a raw deal by "the race relations industry", and he maintained that it was futile to forge links with ethnic groups who were no true friends to Jews anyway. An "Empire loyalist", he was staunchly opposed to Britain’s membership of the Common Market – let alone the EU – holding that it was a betrayal of the Commonwealth and of Britain’s interests. At his memorial service in Westminster Synagogue the address was given by Enoch Powell, whose views on non-white immigration to Britain and its consequences, as on so many other matters, were matched by Soref’s.

Soref remains a controversial figure; Jews on the political right would probably not wish to be thought to resemble him, while those on the political left continue to demonise him. For example, in a recent biographical dictionary of Jewish MPs in Britain, of which the Labour life peer Lord Janner of Braunstone is a co-author, his entry contains a scathing value judgment unworthy of such a work, as well as politically-loaded factual inaccuracies.


I thought of Soref today, when I read on the Jewish Chronicle’s website (thejc.com) that a new parliamentary group, of which Conservative MP Kris Hopkins is chairman and Lord Janner (pictured) is a co-vice-chairman, established to tackle Islamophobia has – though evidently not without misgivings from its LibDem co-vice-chairman, Simon Hughes – been shamed into curtailing its foolish ties with Engage, an explicitly anti-Zionist Muslim organisation that has also defended radical Muslim preachers and opposed moderate Muslim groups concerned about Islamist extremism, following an exposé of Engage by former Conservative MP Paul Goodman (the Roman Catholic son of Jewish parents) in the Conservative Home website that he edits.

To quote the JC:
‘In June, Mohammed Asif, chief executive of Engage, wrote to Education Secretary Michael Gove to express his opposition to Zionism being taught in Jewish schools. "Zionism is not part of the Jewish faith," he wrote. "It is a political ideology which has its roots in the works of Theodor Herzl and subsequent ideologues that have advanced the idea of a national struggle to establish a homeland for the Jews in the modern era."
The Engage website described Sunday Telegraph reporter Andrew Gilligan as “deranged” after he raised questions about whether the organisation was independent enough to perform the functions of secretariat to the all-party group. In recent years the group has defended the right of radical Muslim preachers to come to Britain and express their views and opposed the ban on extremist group Hizb-ut-Tahrir from university campuses.
Engage has also challenged those who condemned the Muslim Council of Britain’s Daud Abdullah for signing the Istanbul Declaration, which urged attacks on the British navy.
One comment on the Engage post announcing the establishment of the Islamophobia group said: “Jews and Christian scholars, the so called Western Orientals have always tried to mispresent Islam in their writings. They have always tried to spread baseless lies against Islam in a very authentic and scholarly style, hiding their deep rooted hatred against Islam.”’

According to the Tel Aviv-based Reut Institute (and it’s not wrong!), London has become a “Mecca of Delegitimisation” – a hub of hate for proponents of a concerted assault on Israel’s very right to exist – composed of a “Red-Green Alliance” of hard leftists and Islamists who liaise with like-minded groups throughout Europe (or Eurabia, as it's been dubbed by the Egyptian-born writer Gisèle Littman – aka Bat Ye’or). In 1973, Soref was already warning that London was home to some 50 revolutionary movements – a prophet ahead of his time, effectively anticipating Melanie Phillips’s characterisation of the British capital as “Londonistan”.

Some Jews, fed up with the current situation, and heeding an English Defence League (EDL) call to help "lead the counter-Jihad fight in England", have joined the so-called Jewish Division of the EDL, an organisation widely seen as composed at its core of football hooligans and National Front types.

'An exasperated friend tells me his father, a fearsome Jewish anti-Fascist in his day, now spouts near-the-knuckle canards about "illegal immigrants" and "asylum seekers". This phenomenon is known as "pulling up the ladder" – as each wave of migrants grows to feel at home "aboard" their new country they identify evermore with the host community, sharing in its resentment towards newcomers and not recognising any empathetic connection with their own historical experience", the Daily Telegraph blogger Julian Kossoff has observed blogs.telegraph.co.uk/.../the-english-defence-league-the-jewish-division-and- the-useful-idiots/:
'But when I heard that there were Jews actively supporting the English Defence League (EDL), I thought: "pull the other one". The EDL claims to stand up for Englishness against Islamic extremism, but in truth it is largely a hodgepodge of football hooligans, lumpen boot-boys and cast-offs from seedy neo-Nazi outfits, such as Combat 18.
....While many in the Jewish community have understandable concerns about the rise of Islamic fundamentalism – so often streaked through with virulent anti-Semitism – it is important to remember that the EDL are not our friends. They are part of the problem, not the solution.'
The EDL’s avowed support for Israel and brandishing of the Israeli flag at anti-Islam rallies has met an icy reception from communal leaders. Mark Gardner, communications director of the Community Security Trust, has observed: "The EDL intimidate entire Muslim communities, causing tension and fear. Jews ought to remember that we have long experience of being on the receiving end of this kind of bigotry." Similarly, Jon Benjamin, chief executive of the Board of Deputies, has said:
"The EDL's supposed 'support' for Israel is empty and duplicitous. It is built on a foundation of Islamophobia and hatred which we reject entirely. Sadly, we know only too well what hatred for hatred's sake can cause. The overwhelming majority will not be drawn in by this transparent attempt to manipulate a tense political conflict."
Certainly, the fact that, following the poppy-burning ceremony on Armistice Day (11 November) by a group of Islamist extremists linked to firebrand extremist Anjem Choudary, the mosque in Portsmouth, which was in no way associated with the poppy-burners, was surrounded by EDL members and daubed with graffiti, lends credence to the view that the EDL consists largely of racist thugs.


But while holding aloof from it is one thing, holding aloof from all denunciations of Islamic extremism is quite another. The antisemitism spawned by a diabolical alliance of leftists and Islamists must be robustly countered – why, only last evening there was yet another grotesque antisemitic meeting on a British campus, as an Islamic extremist, Abdel Bari Atwan, editor-in-chief of London-based Al-Quds Al-Arabi newspaper (who in 2007 had declared on MEMRI TV "By Allah, I will go to Trafalgar Square and dance with delight if the Iranian missiles strike Israel") addressed the theme "How much influence does the Zionist lobby exert in the US and UK?" During the lecture he allegedly accused Jewish students of "bombing Gaza", referred to the "Jewish lobby" and refused to condemn Hamas: "Would you want me to condemn those who are resisting the occupation?" ("To invite Atwan to a British university should be inconceivable”, says Israeli ambassador Ron Prosor. "That in 2010, situations are allowed to develop where Jews are called 'Nazis' on British campuses, should appal and concern Britons in equal measure.")www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/42342/police-probe-antisemitic-speech-lse

"It is surely high time for Diaspora leaders to stop living in denial and get their act together. Instead of competing with each other in oozing political correctness, they should display some backbone and call a spade a spade," Isi Leibler has observed – and, boy, Anglo-Jewry desperately needs a leader of his vision and calibre! What a sorry lot most of them are!
'We are currently witnessing the greatest revival of global anti-Semitism since the Middle Ages. This permeates all classes of society, and, ranging from academics to illiterates and European leaders who retain office despite making unabashed neo-Nazi remarks about Jews to mobs at anti-Israeli demonstrations carrying placards "gas the Jews".
It encompasses the entire political spectrum, but is spearheaded by liberals and Muslims. Muslim radicals relate to Israel in a manner reminiscent of the Church’s medieval attitude toward the Jews. They promote popular TV programs depicting the blood of Muslim children being used for baking matzot, and have revived The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a best-seller. They certainly compare favorably with the worst Nazi Jew baiting, with imams quoting genocidal religious texts to the faithful, inciting them to murder Jews, "the descendants of apes and pigs".
It is macabre to observe the alliance between liberals and jihadists who represent the antithesis of everything the Left purports to represent. The extremist Islamists are the most reactionary elements in the world. They reject fundamental human rights, proscribe freedom of expression and religion, promote the degradation of women and, to this day, implement barbaric laws including stoning of adulterers and homosexuals and the amputation of limbs for petty crimes. More than 50 Muslim countries deny Judaism or Christianity equal standing with Islam....
Alas, Jews who exaggerate the presence of Islamophobia become leading proponents of the campaign to sanitize and understate Islamic extremism. This is especially bizarre, given that Jews, especially in Europe, but also increasingly in the US, are facing far greater threats of violence than Muslims. It is also synagogues, rather than mosques, which are continuously being desecrated and vandalized, in many cases by Islamists.
In that context, the relative tranquility which Muslims experience in Western societies is a great tribute to tolerance – a tolerance unlikely to have been extended to Jews in similar circumstances. Imagine the response if Israel had a track record like some of the Arab states, or if Jews in Western countries were blowing up their neighbors.
While genuine interfaith relations are to be commended, many Jews persist in engaging in "dialogue" with Muslim organizations that refuse to dissociate themselves from hard-line Islamic attitudes. Some of the leading Saudi groups promoting international interfaith conferences are directly engaged in the promotion of anti-Semitism, yet Jews participating in these bogus meetings naively babble on about love and coexistence and ignore realities. By doing so, Jews undermine the few moderate Muslims courageous enough to speak up.
All religions incorporate texts and concepts which encourage violence and aggression, but it is the interpretation by religious leaders that determines actual behavior. Judaism, Christianity and Buddhism today are overwhelmingly supportive of peace, and seek coexistence while condemning extremists.
In contrast, only a few Islamic moderates have the courage to criticize extremism within their own circles. Those brave enough to do so are marginalized, condemned by their kinsmen, and their lives are frequently endangered. The overwhelming majority remains silent or defends the Islamic excesses of Islamic regimes.... There is indeed a desperate need to encourage moderate Muslims. But appeasing the extremists and groveling to Muslim bullies merely emboldens them. There is not a single instance in history in which appeasing religious fanatics of any faith has brought about progress. If we allow ourselves to be intimidated or fail to confront Islamist jihadists, they will succeed in destroying the very tenets of our civilization.
This is an area in which Jews, who have the most to lose, must surely stand up and be counted."
www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=189444

35 comments:

  1. Dear Daphne, I appreciate your articles and the fact that you normally research your posts well.

    But you have done no research on the EDL or EDL Jewish division, you have never been to an EDL London meeting, an EDL demonstration or even looked at the EDL/Jewish division facebook page.

    Your writing, which is just third-hand opinion, bears no resemblance to reality.

    this is the second post I have read, where you seem to go out of your way to attack the EDL, while knowing NOTHING about them, merely repeating rumour!
    I am a proud member of the EDL Jewish division, I am a 50 year old professional and I have been working for EDL since April 2010. We are a true anti-islam grass-roots organisation. There are many like me and we enjoy the support of Pamela Geller in the US. Just because young man does not dress like a barmitzvah-boy and likes football, does not mean he is a hooligan without a brain. On the contrary, these young people have been let down by the educational system in this country. But they are just as intelligent and capable as any other young person. In fact to denigrate them shows a snobbery unworthy of a Jew.

    We organised a superb demonstration in support of Israel this year, with wonderful speeches from EDL leaders who are not Jewish. It was more than any other organisation had done with the exception of the ZF.

    We went to LSE to debate some Jewish Israel-bashers: they sat together with their arab partners, telling us we were wrong about islam and that Jews and muslims can live side by side peacefully; now this:

    http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/national/c-15406/jewish-students-called-nazis-at-lse-debate/
    "Jewish STUDENTS at a major London university were this week branded "Nazis" at a talk given by a controversial anti-Israel speaker."

    I have been reading about Australia, your home country, where sharia law is being accepted by one state there, muslims run riot, the whole country is paralysed by political correctness. Yet there is no group fighting this! Just middle aged journos with their little blogs, whining. But not actually doing anything about it!

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  2. Juniper, many thanks for your comment - I can tell how heartfelt it is.
    I don't mean to give the impression that I "go out of my way" to attack the EDL - believe me, I'm appalled at the creeping islamification of this country and this continent, and I deplore the knee-jerk anti-rightwing attitude of much of the Jewish left and indeed the Jewish "establishment". The "Jewish Chronicle" has carried a series of nakedly propagandistic anti-EDL reports in recent weeks - the sort of thing the BBC might carry - and there are communal warnings about becoming involved with the EDL. When the Jewish Division attended the anti-Ahava demo in solidarity with Israel and its head was photographed alongside Jonathan Hoffman, who'd not asked for their support, the photo was splashed all over the internet to defame him.
    It's said that the EDL's avowed commitment to Israel is just a way of antagonising Muslims - and the waving of the Israeli flag like a red rag to a bull. This school of thought stresses the links between the EDL and NF elements - with what justification I know not. I do know that many Jews believe that we should make common cause with the EDL - but when I read of the business in Pompey, some 90 minutes from London by train, I thought that it reinforced arguments that the EDL are bullies purposely out to inflame tensions and stir violence.
    I value your opinion, and am happy to know that there is another side to the story.
    If I have offended you, I sincerely apologise.
    I realise only too well that some Jews seem to think we're still fighting Mosley and his Fascists - when the true enemy wears not a blackshirt but a very different garb.

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  3. btw, I'm not a "snob". I saw a young EDL man on TV the other day debating with a young Muslim man. It was on Al Beeb, and the female interviewer was hopeless. The young man, though not polished in accent, argued well.
    These young people are set to inherit the whirlwind their elders are creating - my heart goes out to them.
    One of the most moving speeches I ever heard came in the form of off-the-cuff remarks a young friend of a fallen soldier gave to a TV reporter at Wootton Bassett. He described his fallen friend as having "a lion heart" and phrased it so beautifully, and so sincerely, in his rough and ready accent, that it was worth 100 speeches by a politician. I wept, it was so moving, and was full of admiration for the sweet soul who'd uttered it.

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  4. So what did the JC say about 43 Group at the time. They were before my time but I must say they have my admiration.

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  5. I imagine their feelings were positive, Steve - no "ethnic" angle.

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  6. The young man you saw was the founder of the EDL, Tommy Robinson. He is not a politician and he talks like any guy in the pub but he is truly a great man. He is experiencing every mode of harassment the state can muster including arrest at night by armed police in front of his family.

    Because the EDL has a razor focus on Islam many of it's newest members come to understand something about Israel's struggle to exist that I dare say 99% of the Board of Deputies will still deny: it's not about land, it's only about Islam wiping out all trace of FREE Jews. Jews must be Dhimmis, converts to Islam or dead. It's a pity the left leaning British court Jews don't want to know this.

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  7. Thanks so much for that interpretation of the situation, Brian.
    I look at the JC website quite often (and subscribe to the hard copy). The day after the poppy-burning the JC "did a BBC" by reporting Robinson's arrest in a screaming headline, and the fact that two Muslims had been arrested was buried in the body of the article.
    Some people say the JC agenda is driven by the paper's apparent links to the NIF.

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  8. Also know that on 9/11 outside the US embassy the same bunch of Jihadi wannabees who burnt poppies, were burning the US and UK flags. As ever the EDL were there to face them and only the thin blue line of police kept them from being dismembered. That got next to no coverage too.

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  9. I certainly didn't hear about that! Thanks, Brian.

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  10. Hi Daphne,

    I was sent the link to this article by a friend and I have to agree with Juniper and Brian above.
    First of all, I think I did make clear last time that the EDL is NOT the National Front, not bullies and certainly not violent people. We don't go out to cause violence, or attack anyone. We go out to demand our rights as British Citizens and to fight ISLAM in this country. We do not attack Muslims, we attack their evil ideology.

    But I want you to understand that when a Muslim physically provokes an attack towards us (with their knives, broken glass, etc), we WILL retaliate, we WILL fight back, and if that makes us "violent" then so be it. I rather defend myself than to allow some evil bastard to hurt me.

    Everytime the EDL retaliates against aggression they are called violent, or aggressive. For G-d's sake! I refuse to believe that people are that stupid that they cannot really grasp the reality.

    Isn't this the same thing that is happening to Israel and Israelis?? Israelis are attacked ALL THE TIME but when they retaliate, the whole world condemns them. WTF? What are they supposed to do? Lay down and die?

    What is the EDL supposed to do? Lay down and die?

    I quote you:

    [It's said that the EDL's avowed commitment to Israel is just a way of antagonising Muslims - and the waving of the Israeli flag like a red rag to a bull. This school of thought stresses the links between the EDL and NF elements - with what justification I know not.]

    Let me point something out: The EDL does not wave Israeli flags to antagonise Muslims, we wave because we truly and genuinely support Israel and Israelis. Now, the question you should be asking is: WHY would Muslims be antagonised by ANYONE waving the Israeli flag? Ahh, because they HATE US. Get it?

    Cont...

    Roberta
    EDL Jewish Division

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  11. We are not doing it to provoke them, we are doing it because we want to, and it's our right as Israelis to wave the flag of OUR COUNTRY, whether that pisses the Muslims off or not. Frankly I could not give a shit. Why doesn't the Brazilian or Portuguese flag we wave piss them off? Why ONLY the Israeli flag does? This is what you should be asking yourself and the whole media.

    This kind of comment is what makes Jews afraid of waving their flag. They are becoming utterly afraid of waving the Israeli flag in case it hurts Muslim sentiments. I say FUCK THEM. Who cares about their feelings when they do not seem to care about ours? Their FAKESTINIAN flag offends me, and offends me more because it is a made up flag for a made up country that does not even exist. Waving that shit on our faces IS pure provocation.

    And to be honest with you, I truly believe that Muslims have to be put in their places now. In the same manner we did with the Nazis. Make no mistakes. The ideology is the same. Islam and Nazism - both want a world free of Jews. So give me one good reason why I should even attempt to consider their feelings.

    The EDL are not nazis. We are not racist. We have united people of all colours, religion and creeds under one banner which is against the sick and evil ideology of Islam. That is not to say all Muslims are evil. We know by experience that those who have left Islam are not. And we also know that there are some Muslims out there (who are not religious at all, although call themselves Muslims) who are good people. These people DO NOT follow the ideology of Islam, but consider themselves Muslims for believing in G-d. I have no problem with that.

    But I do have a massive problem with so-called moderate Muslims who are not moderate at all, save for the fact they do not murder anyone physically, but go around claiming the Qu'ran is the word of G-d and jump for joy when Jews are massacred. These Muslims are sickening to the core. They may have their hands clean but their hearts are filthy and rotten.

    These are the people we are against.

    I thought you knew this. And if you didn't, you do now. So I am asking you to please, next time you write an article about the eDL, or copy and paste other people's comments, kindly add your own commentary to it, and do not let the lies be seen through.

    If you quote, "it has been said the EDL...", please say afterwards: "but actually in my opinion the EDL is...."

    Know what I mean? You can write too, and you can put your opinions across, and if you need any help on that, you can always ask us.

    We have just opened a new Pakistani Christian Division in the EDL due to the demand from Pakistani Christians who have joined us. So HOW are we racists or NF??? Ask yourself this question.

    We have NEVER rioted in the city. All our "violence and aggressive" behaviour was in SELF DEFENCE after being attacked by fanatic muslim scum who worship a paedophile!

    We NEVER EVER set out to attack anyone, but we WILL always defend ourselves, and if people want to call us nazis or racists because of that, then so be it. I personally could not give a damn. Ze ma yesh!!!

    In my opinion, you should be exposing these Islamo-fascists as best you can, using the correct words to refer to them for what they are.

    Listen to this. This was an interview I gave to the BBC Asian Network this week - in the radio.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00wff3m/Nihal_06_12_2010/

    See it now as it won't be there after Sunday.

    And the young man who gave the interview for the BBC is our leader, Tommy Robinson. A real sweetheart, good friend of mine and a person I respect more than many others. He has my loyalty and total respect. He is a HERO!!!

    Kind regards

    Roberta
    Head EDL Jewish Division

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  12. Wow, Roberta - that's a megillah, and I thank you for the trouble you've taken to post it.
    I have seen you on video and know how articulate you are.
    I will take on board all you have said.
    I am coming round to the view that the Jewish Chronicle is little better than Al Beeb in their apparent manipulation of what we should see and hear...
    Shabbat Shalom

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  13. Here in the UK our "Leaders" are obsessed with their egos and being more British than the British. I remember my late father telling me about the Jewish Organizations warning young Jews not to get involved in the Battle of Cable Street. Even after the WWII similar edicts about fascist demonstrations. I think that we need to reserve judgment on the EDL unless or until there is a definite proven connection to the BNP.

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  14. Thanks for that interesting comment, Anon, which ties in with the query from SteveR (above).
    I'll have to revisit this topic some time.

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  15. Anonymous Joo Girl12 December 2010 at 04:01

    This is an interesting post and comments.

    British Jews do have sympathy for the message of the EDL but it's very difficult to align ourselves because the community leaders and JC have already made judgement on the group. Look at the bullying that Jonathan Hoffman received just for being in the same photo as you, Roberta. It was disgusting and the JC was party to it by not moderating their blogs.

    Roberta, you haven't grown up here in London to know about the whispering and gossiping within the community. Everyone knows everyone. The way the EDL is structured we just can't join. As a South American you can stay immune to it.

    It's also a class thing. These guys on the EDL demonstrations (including Tommy Robinson)are very working class with their shaven heads, tattoos and lousy command of the English language. They are simply not us and will not find it easy to win over the media.

    I looked at one of the videos a guy posted on the JC blogs where they had an ex Army veteran talking after a court case - and he was marvellous! Can you repost this link?

    If Tommy was clever, he'd take a back seat and let this guy front it. He should have only army veterans on marches and tell all the shaven headed blokes that staying at home is the strategy to win more public sympathy.

    Image is important and to gain popularity they need to change it!

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  16. Thanks for that very interesting comment - JH's treatment was certainly disgraceful.
    Juniper and Roberta, I'm sure to revist this topic again...
    Somebody kindly sent me this link, with the substance of which they, a Jew, heartily agree:
    http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/12/taking-big-risk.html

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  17. Anonymous Joo Girl12 December 2010 at 05:25

    Thanks for the link Daphne, have to agree with the writer too.

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  18. http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/a_christmas_present_to_sweden_from_a_muslim_citizen#77886

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  19. Hey, hey, hey Juniper in the Desert
    You are up the creek without a paddle and rude to boot.!!

    Plenty of people slam the EDL, but are now coming around to see them on the right light.

    You are a bit too young to know anything of the era I grew up in, of Mosley and the Black shirts. That was the initial concept by most, of the EDL, mainly I think because of the neo-Nazi type hangers on, who have now well and truly been outed.

    As for your views of Australia, you haven’t a clue what you are talking about, because NO WHERE in this country has Sharia law been accepted, nor is it likely to be, we won’t bow down like Britain . I would suggest that you follow some of the Australian Daily news .
    Maybe I should get stuck in about ‘good old England,’ the land of my birth and how you have all been sold out to Islam.

    Where were you in the 80s? You would have been the right age for university protests etc. I saw exactly what was happening to the good old mother country then, especially the East End. I said I’d never go back again.

    At this point in time , we have no need to fight Islam, nor will we because unlike the apathetic Brits, we have minds of our own and don’t blindly accept and follow.

    Roberta didn’t point out either that we have the ADL here, which although in its infancy, is getting the message out.

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  20. Sorry Anonymous Joo Girl , you are wrong. The way of thinking the way you do, has well and truly passed.

    Tommy is perfect and whilst I used to think that we can't be in the forefront with these ideas, I now have a change of heart, which Roberta will tell you too, as I had a run-in with her, at our first 'meeting'.

    I think and hope that the days of worrying about class and what people are wearing has gone. If it hasn't, then I think Britain is in a worst state than I thought it was.

    It's complete and utter 'tommy rot' that you can't join the EDL.

    Sorry here, but do you have a mind of your own?
    Who cares what any one thinks and if they whisper about you so what ?

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  21. Maybe someone here will be interested in the latest video on the rally in Peterborough.
    About 3000 I believe and an orderly crowd AND



    ..........the police and Council were on side making sure the EDL got everything they needed.

    It was also the EDL who helped clean up the devastation in London, after the educated youth of Britain almost destroyed London

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ra9W-ejd3E&feature=player_embedded


    By the way Anonymous Joo Girl, just because a person has a Cockney accent, it doesn't make them any less of a person

    I'm a Cockney, born and bred within the sound of Bow Bells.

    I had one of the best educations England has to offer, with a full scholarship to one of the country’s best Public schools. I studied at London University and to be honest with you I am very proud that i am a Cockney and I still have my Cockney accent, even though I have been in Australia for 45 years.

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  22. Shirlee, I don't consider Juniper rude - far from it. Juniper has an interesting website, which I'm sure you must have visited! Juniper in the Desert)
    I think Juniper's reference to Australia must have riled your Aussie sensibilities - I imagine Juniper is referring to the Peter Faris contention that Sharia is allowable under Victoria's law in view of Vic's recognition of the Charter of Human Rights.

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  23. Sorry, but it came across to me that way Daphne.
    No - I have never seen the website. I never frequented English ones until recent times. Even now rarely. This is basically it and Oy va voy

    I've had a few days of it with the Jewish hierachy in this country.

    Usless bunch of pathetic, incompetent, self opinionated nobodies !!

    They do nothing. I asked for help for a few years to get the Yahoo Message Boards closed, nothing was forthcoming, even though they said they'd help. I got them closed all by myself. Looooong story

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  24. Have a look, though, Shirlee
    http://www.juniperinthedesert.blogspot.com/
    I haven't put it on my blogroll because I restrict that to sites specifically concerned with Israel
    You're certainly feisty, a one-woman dynamo! If you think the leadership over there is poor, you should see it here! I've heard that there's been a vacuum since Isi Leibler made aliya - he was (or rather is) a man in a million.

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  25. Joo girl:

    I totally understand you. You are right, I did not grow up here, so I am immune to their sniggering and whisperings. But the truth is, even if I had grown up here I would not give a damn.

    People can only hurt you if you let them. And I don't.

    I told Jonathan hundreds of times to STOP replying to those low lives who attacked him. I even sent a press release to clear his name. But I will no longer do this. The reason is that no matter how nice I am to the Jewish community, I find them a bunch of hypocrites.

    I have NOTHING in common with these diaspora kapos who appease Islamists and lower their heads when attacked. Where I come from, Jews FIGHT BACK. So perhaps you can understand my anger towards the community. Although I have to say the Sephardic community is much better on that front. Iraqi, Turkish and other mizrachi Jews are on the same level as me. I like that. They are fighters, not coward runners.

    I seriously don't know what is wrong with these diaspora Jews. Haven't they learned anything? For crying out loud, what will it take for them to wake up and see Islam and Muslims for what they truly are?

    "Remember AMALEK". This is one of the words of G-d in the Torah. But do these people even remember? Do they even pay attention to these words? All they care about is shabbat and following traditions which they barely understand. They like to dress the part as Jews but are NOT JEWISH in their hearts. I find them pathetic. Every Jew who allows himself or his family to be targeted by Muslims is pathetic.

    Another thing, using the excuse as "class thing" is also well, pathetic. Sorry to say that. But this kind of prejudice should not exist.

    There are many educated people in the EDL. Most of us have degrees, are well spoken and can easily hold and win debates not only against Muslims but also against these coward Jews. In fact I have challenged them to a public filmed debate but so far received no replies. Know why? Because they are afraid.

    And I disagree with you that you guys cannot join the EDL. Everyone can and everyone is welcome. The Jewish Division is actually a high class division, since most of our people are educated, polite, well mannered and well spoken. Not to mention, working professionals.

    Some of the EDL guys may have their own "unclassy" way of speaking but that's just how they are. This does not make them worse than any of us. In fact, I love their down to earth ways and their uncomplicated ways of speaking.

    When I got to this country I also had this prejudice about them but I have it no more. I was an idiot for thinking that my education made me better than them. Look at them! They are MUCH BETTER than us because they have the guts to stand up and defend their country. What do we have with all our education and pomp? NOTHING.

    I have not seen one single Jew stand up and fight for the community. I have not seen any of them lead the people in the right direction, give them power, confidence...

    So this is what I am doing. I and the rest of the Jewish Division are standing up and leading all those who join us to safety and a better life free from terror. We are educating them in how to fight, how to never lower their heads when they get insulted or attacked, and trying to give them HOPE. Something our so-called-leaders have never done and never will do.

    Cont...

    Roberta
    EDL Jewish Division

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  26. There is nothing wrong with having your head shaven. Nothing wrong with having tattoos. If we are going to judge people by the way they look then we should first judge ourselves. Look at the Charedim and the frum people! I would NEVER dress like that. To me they look horrible!

    So prejudice leads us nowhere. I might not like how they dress but I will not attack them on that basis, and it pains me to see some Jews doing that to us, to our English brothers and those who are actually taking our fight as a burden, while we happily light our shabbat candles at home. This is NOT FAIR!! We cannot let them fight alone! NEVER!! This is cowardice!

    By the way, the ex-soldier you are talking about is Alan. I love his speeches but he is not more fluent than Tommy. We also have an ex-forces division which I am part of, as I was in the Royal Engineers here in the UK as well.

    But Tommy is our leader. He is the founder of the EDL, and he is really brilliant as a person and as a friend. He has NEVER denied me anything, and he was the one who helped me most in organizing the Israeli demo. It's unfair and unjust to judge anyone on their manner of speech or appearance. You should judge people by their actions and their intentions only. This is where the Jewish community is going wrong.

    Our education and class will lead us nowhere if we cannot fight, and an army is not made of wossies.An army is made of people who can fight, whether with words or physically.

    I have not seen any "educated Jew" fighting even with words, except for a very selective few, but most not in this country even.

    Anyway, I can be contacted on edljdiv@live.co.uk
    I would love you guys to come to one of our meetings.
    Our next one is on Wednesday 15th December in Golders Green. If anyone is interested let me know now and I will be happy to arrange.

    Kind regards and apologies for the ranting session. Sometimes these things have to be said.

    Ps. Most businesses in Golders Green support us, so that you guys know. We have loads of high class intelligent and educated Jews in our ranks, and most of the community doesn't even know they are with us.

    Wouldn't it be simpler to be honest and come clean?

    The EDL is here to stay and you should not care about what the rest of the Jewry thinks or says.

    If they cannot be behind us, tell them to be in front of us. Let's see if there is any with balls. ;)

    Meanwhile WE LEAD. If they don't follow they can be DHIMMIS as far as I am concerned. I will make no concessions for them any longer. The threat is real and only the EDL can deal with it.

    Roberta
    EDL Jewish Division

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  27. Daphne,

    Thanks for allowing us to post our views on your blog. Most people do not let us post our views because they intend to keep the people in the dark about the EDL. It's sickening.

    Last Saturday 11/12, I went with another 3 EDL members to a UAF conference where they planned to demonize the EDL. Our cameraman was there filming it. When I tried to speak in defence of the EDL, the mob surrounded me, a woman dug her nails on both my arms to try and remove me from the room, simply because I told them I support the EDL and I have photo evidence to prove we are not racist.

    A Sikh man (A commie no doubt) pulled my mobile phone from my hand while I was calling the police to report I was being assaulted physically, while others tried to push me out of the room. I grabbed the man and forced him to return my phone, and another woman grabbed my legs, trying to remove me by force, while another (A muslim woman wearing a dirty hijab) snatched the photos from my hands and ripped them up. They did not even allow the rest of the people to see the truth for themselves.
    I told the woman holding my legs to get off me or I would kneel her on her face and break her nose. She quickly let me go.

    We got the whole attack on film. It was disgraceful.

    So we the EDL put ourselves in this position, we get harassed, attacked, etc. to defend our people and our country. And yet some people want us to "LOOK middle class"??

    How am I supposed to defend myself wearing high heels and prada bags for G-d's sake? Has any warrior ever gone to war in fineries?
    It's ludicrous!

    Many of us are middle class but we cannot look like that when we take to the streets. It's as simple as that.

    I also have a family and a child. I have a life too. If I could I would be holidaying abroad most of the time, but this is not the time. I sacrifice my personal happiness to fight for those who cannot or will not. I and most of the EDL sacrifice our own safety for the rest.

    And this is how they repay us?

    What pisses me off mostly are the people who know me, and belong to organizations such as Zionist Federation, CST, etc.. and despite knowing us and all that we stand for, these bastards still go around preaching we are right wing and aggressive or violent or BNP. FFS!!!
    Morons!! No, they are worse than morons! They are lying hypocrites! Scared of what others will think or say. Pathetic! Dhimmified kapos. They have no backbone. And frankly we don't need pussies in our army.

    We only need good men and women who are willing to fight for their country. The rest can go to hell for what I care.

    And mind you, I am not even English, but I love this country and would die for it.

    And any Jew or non-Jew who dares stand in my way will live to regret it.

    I want to see Jews joining us and fighting back. I want them to show me they can fight against any islamofascist. I want to see them standing up for themselves in universities, on campuses, in conferences, etc.. I want to see the Jews fight back.

    The leadership is here. We have no fear and we will never surrender. Let those with courage and honour join us and show their people they mean business.

    Jews will no longer be silent. And if the rest of the community cannot/will not see this, they can fuck off.

    Roberta
    EDL Jewish Division

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  28. Thanks for your comments, Roberta!

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  29. Daphne,

    Have a look at what happened on Saturday at the conference I described above, when I had my freedom of speech infringed by the racist and fascist UAF and was actually physically attacked by those commies.

    http://theenglishdefenceleagueextra.blogspot.com/2010/12/violence-against-edl-at-islamophobia.html

    Roberta
    EDL Jewish Division

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  30. I've just had a look, Roberta, and their heavy-handed silencing and man-handling behaviour was pure fascism - their cries ot "out, out, out" remindede me of cries of "Raus, raus, raus" and their failure to allow you to speak was Nazi-like - but the socialist left are totalitarian blockheads; I found a similar reception when I spoke out at a PSC meeting, to correct lies about Israel.
    In the words of Corporal Jones (remember him from the telly?) "They don't like it up 'em!"
    And that guy from the back was right about halal meat - it's been introduced into several schools, and even served to an unwitting House of Commons!

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  31. Dear Daphne, I wish to post this link to inform Shirl in oz where I got my information re sharia law in Australia:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/charter-opens-door-to-sharia-law-recognition/story-e6frg8zx-1225964766903

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  32. Daphne,

    The Sikh man on the right (With shoulder length hair and wearing a denin shirt) stole my mobile phone but I grabbed his shirt and demanded it back. Upon which he returned it to me.

    Yes, they were heavy handed. I could have fought back but because we were filming I decided to expose them instead ;)

    Roberta
    EDL Jewish Division

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  33. The only Sikhs I have encountered have been very pro-Israel.

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  34. Who is the rather handsome young man holding the "We support Israel" placard? Oh it's me

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